What annoys you?

Talk about general stuff not related to Shadows & Silver. Just, please, no pointless spam.
Alyzr
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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Alyzr » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:49 am

You act as if I am talking about writing a 10 line essay every time my character does anything, when it is in fact the polar opposite, and that is the opposite of the spectrum. You shouldn't be writing one line of emotes because it makes your character appear lifeless and dull, in my opinion. You also shouldn't sit around for 10 minutes writing a page of useless information. There is a medium that every writer should strive for. If I am an elitist because I expect people to put any legitimate effort into their role playing style, then I am an elitist.

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Squatting Monk » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:51 am

Heh, having played with Casa for years, I can tell you his characters are anything but dull and lifeless. He doesn't even need to use emotes to make that possible. ;)
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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Alyzr » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:53 am

Squatting Monk wrote:Heh, having played with Casa for years, I can tell you his characters are anything but dull and lifeless. He doesn't even need to use emotes to make that possible. ;)
Again, of course, you do not need to emote well to paint a picture, but if you fore go painting any picture whatsoever, you aren't a good role player.

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Squatting Monk » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:27 am

Granted, but the point of contention is that your post made it sound as if not writing book-style emotes was forgoing painting a picture.

If I can extend the painting analogy for a moment...

Consider the following paintings:

Image

Image

Which is the better painting and, thus, points us to the better painter? Instinct makes us jump at the first one, because it's more detailed, closer to life, and prettier. But while the first painting captures all those things, the second captures raw emotion. Might we say that, if Van Gogh had put in a little more effort, he could be just as good a painter as Thomas Kinkaide? Certainly not! Van Gogh's work is different than Kinkaide's. It has a different style and a different purpose, and captures a different message. One would be a fool to attribute poor skill to his masterful style, though.

One need not have long, detailed, or terribly clever emotes to be a good roleplayer. In fact, short and curt can work just as well. What matters is the immersion it brings. Yes, we don't always care for someone's style, but don't suppose the painting has no message simply because it doesn't contain the tiny details of a Kinkaide.
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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Casa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:52 am

Michael again shows mastery in his skill of bringing up analogies. I think it's not a topic worth argueing about, since we are only talking theory here anyway and have never actually played together as a group. Maybe we'd see our prejudices proven, maybe we'd just have a good time together, who knows. What a relief we all have different projects we work on that cater different styles too. Anyway, I didn't intend to insult you Alyzr, I just happen to be one of those who prefer the more casual style that just suits my personal immersion in the game best.

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Ben Harrison » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:53 am

I think we'd have a great time roleplaying together! What makes a good roleplayer isn't the ability to write well, but the ability to write well certainly makes a good roleplayer 1) more able to convey his character's actions, speech, and... uh... character, and 2) more recognisable as such (which may or may not matter to him). I'm not sure what you mean by using no emotes at all, though; there are many scenes that simply couldn't be played out without description of actions as well as words.

I get the impression Casa (and others?) are coming from an adventure/action roleplaying background or preference, though. That's not a good or a bad thing, but it does tend to limit the kind (and extent) of roleplay that happens; when you need to hurry or be ambushed by the mechanics combat against the goblins, you're not roleplaying as "heavily" as I nearly always do, or taking the in game world as seriously. I've roleplayed (and DMed) freeform battles (where mutual trust, experience, and written words replace dice), romances, sexual encounters, permanent character deaths, childbirths, and a dozen other things besides tavern meet-ups and adventures, and most of these things necessitate a lot being written (not necessarily all at once) in order to happen at all.

The best roleplayers can adjust to accomodate and include other (often less experienced or "hardcore") roleplayers, while still developing detailed characters and making the game fun for themselves and others, but roleplaying shouldn't be overlooked or brushed aside as an art, either. There is skill in developing quasi-realistic characters through the kinds of situations I describe above, with integrity and flair and generosity, and a much more casual roleplayer can break the immersion such roleplayers thrive on, so don't take too hard a view of elitists.

On topic:

• Character voicesets/animations
... When used to greet or bid farewell to other characters IC. There's something about that little wave animation (especially when combined with a horrid voiceset, which is 95% of them) that drives me insane.

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Squatting Monk » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:21 am

Good perspective.

Yes, Casa and I hail from an action-oriented server. Though we loved the community there, we always hungered for a stronger RP element in the world itself, which is why we split off to do our own things.

Now, don't get me wrong. My statement a few posts up was not meant to say that Casa doesn't use emotes or that he uses them sparingly. Rather, he's very good at dialog and quite able to convey a tone of voice. You can get a good sense of who his characters are without him having to go overboard on the emotes.

And, lest I drag us back off-topic after you got us back on...

  • Drama: There's a difference between soap-operas and role-playing. You can be exciting without being over the top, and interesting without being outlandish. I am guilty of this one (as evidenced by Astra, my emo bi-sexual drow paladin princess. Yeah... :oops:).
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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Casa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:24 am

Ben Harrison wrote: I get the impression Casa (and others?) are coming from an adventure/action roleplaying background or preference, though. That's not a good or a bad thing, but it does tend to limit the kind (and extent) of roleplay that happens; when you need to hurry or be ambushed by the mechanics combat against the goblins, you're not roleplaying as "heavily" as I nearly always do, or taking the in game world as seriously. I've roleplayed (and DMed) freeform battles (where mutual trust, experience, and written words replace dice), romances, sexual encounters, permanent character deaths, childbirths, and a dozen other things besides tavern meet-ups and adventures, and most of these things necessitate a lot being written (not necessarily all at once) in order to happen at all.
Hmm, no, you might have gotten that impression, but actually Michael and I both have a RP server background, although personally I'd throw our first server into "Story/Action" nowadays. I only played on RP servers afterwards, currently in Dammendrech which claims to be a hardcore RP server where the actual level plateau is way below ten and a few of the most wonderful RPers I've ever met hang about.
Michael's comment about no emotes was certainly meant as a compliment, but misleading - of course I emote a lot, and I always stay in character and try to make my characters as deep and emotional as possible, but my actual dialogue lines are usually longer than the preceding emote. Actually, what a character says can describe their behaviour often as good as any emote.
Your above examples are nothing new to me, I've been through emotional rollercoasters in RP again and again, spending a whole night only roleplaying the simple act of climbing a tree. However I don't always need or use bookstyle-emotes for that. I'm keeping my emotes short and simple without being dull, just trying to keep them to the necessary information. For example, reminding others of my name is, for me, not a necessary information, it's the opposite. If my character leans against a wall in a certain fashion, I'm describing the rough outline of it that transports all the information I think the other players should have, not going into detail how delicately the seam of her dress plays around her ankles, as long as I don't specifically want to focus another's attention on that detail. If my character frowns at someone, she *frowns* as long as I don't want her to frown in a specific, unusual way. I personally believe that this style hasn't ever made me a bad roleplayer, also, the actual dialogue following the emote, as well as the whole situation around it must be taken into consideration.

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Casa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:25 am

Squatting Monk wrote:Good perspective.

Yes, Casa and I hail from an action-oriented server. Though we loved the community there, we always hungered for a stronger RP element in the world itself, which is why we split off to do our own things.


Oh, yes fine, poke that dagger into my back. :)
Nexus was a server switching back and forth between the PW Story and Roleplay category. It wasn't an action server as in everyone is just running around with their flaming waraxes bashing everything out of the way, that wouldn't do it justice.
Players were supposed to stay in character and they did, however the actual atmosphere and depht of the roleplay can only be described as "light". Nexus featured some very nice storytelling from their admins Aristance and Eyerelle, who could best be described like those storytelling grandparents in front of a fireplace on kid's tv. Which also describes the general atmosphere quite good, kid safe, family friendly, casual, light and happy, not really mature and deep.
Just to give you a basic idea, it was not like Soulforge or yet another 1337 kiddie world.



Squatting Monk wrote:I am guilty of this one (as evidenced by Astra, my emo bi-sexual drow paladin princess. Yeah... :oops:)


What, Astra was bi and Rode never went to bed with her? A shame! :lol:

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Re: What annoys you?

Post by Squatting Monk » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:27 am

See, and here's where perception comes in. I'd call Nexus action and Casa would call it RP. It's a mix of both, and you can get out of it what you wish. There was good RP to be found, true, but the action was what stuck with me.
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